Sunday, July 18, 2010
Seattle Police Officer Punches Girl in Face: I Would Have Punched Her Too
The South Seattle Police Department is investigating what they’re calling “an assault of an officer” today, and the video of the incident is fast becoming an object of controversy.
KOMO News of Seattle reports that the incident took place on Monday, when the officer witnessed four teenage girls jaywalking across Martin Luther King, Jr. Way (gotta love it). According to police officials, the young women became “verbally antagonistic” when the officer asked them to step over to his patrol car.
Apparently, the officer approached one woman who started to walk away. He then attempted to physically escort her to the vehicle. The woman resisted and an altercation ensued. Shortly thereafter, a second young lady intervened to try to help her friend. According to Seattle police, the officer believed “she was attempting to physically affect the first subject’s escape.”
As seen in the video, the second young lady shoved the officer, who then punched the girl in the face (very awesome). Police backup soon arrived, and the women were taken in to custody.
Sgt. Sean Whitcomb allegedly told reporters that punching is a trained tactic and the department defends the officer’s actions.
Okay, I know I’m supposed to be all outraged and whatever because I’m black and stuff like that, HOWEVER, I don’t know whether it’s because I’m a jaded ’80s baby tired of young people’s lack of respect for authority or I’m just an insensitive bitch, but I think the girls in this video absolutely deserve what they got.
Therefore, I’m not upset, nor appalled, nor preparing my picket sign for the sure-to-come NAACP rally.
Of course, jaywalking is a bogus offense that most cops don’t acknowledge, let alone enforce, but when will this generation realize that they need to show respect for adults? Maybe your mom wants to be your best friend, and your teacher is just waiting on her retirement date and your dad (if he’s around) just wants you to not be mad at him, but it’s time young people grasped the concept of authority.
Maybe it was a ridiculous waste of time for an officer to cite this young woman for jaywalking, but what happened to the day and time when we respected the authority of policeman? I am older than the girl and probably the policeman, but I will tell you that if an officer told me I was being arrested for having nappy hair and to put my hands behind my back, my hands are going behind my back and I am going to STFU.
Why did this woman continue to resist this officer once given an official command? Life is not a game.
Is there any doubt that if they had just done what they were told in the first place this would not have happened? I don’t know about you, but I was told that when it came to interacting with the police all I should be saying is “yes sir” and “no sir.” If these women had responded in an appropriate manner when they were approached would we be watching any of this?
And don’t get me started on her idiot friend. I’m very sorry she got punched in the face (not really), but you have a lone cop faced with a growing mob, and then her friend, a citizen interfering with an arrest, actually puts her hands on him? I would have popped the shit out of her, too.
You see she fell back once he got her in the mouf one good time. And she will likely think twice before putting her hands on a police officer again.
Frankly, I think this video says more about these young ladies and their view of authority than it does about a policeman acting inappropriately. We are so used to cops behaving badly and kicking ass and killing black people for no reason that we sit back and all but encourage young people to challenge them. You can see the anxious bystanders just hoping to get a shot of the latest YouTube sensation, salivating for a juicy clip of police brutality.
I will never support police brutality, and there have been actions of police against the citizens that are inexcusable, but this ain’t one of them.
This video falls in the “you-get-what-you-asked-for” category for me. Perhaps next time an officer approaches these ladies, they will respect his authority and do what the hell he tells them to do instead of cursing him out.
Somewhere along the way, someone sent the message that young people can treat adults any way they want to (including police). And it’s high time someone had a counter point.
Too bad it had to be a counterpunch. I’ll save my tears for real victims.
Look at it this way: Just think of all those times when you encountered a group of rowdy young people on a bus or subway or walking down the street and thought to yourself, “Someone needs to whip their asses.” Consider it done. Courtesy of the Seattle Police.
arsha
on 18 Jul 2010 at 10:18 pm #
lmao. well said. especially this …
“Look at it this way: Just think of all those times when you encountered a group of rowdy young people on a bus or subway or walking down the street and thought to yourself, “Someone needs to whip their asses.” Consider it done. Courtesy of the Seattle Police.”
lmao. amen to that!
Serenity
on 19 Jul 2010 at 7:37 am #
Police officers are (or are supposed to be) trained to handle beligerant individuals. I mean who is happy about being arrested? That is why they go to the police academy. For this officer to use this type of excessive force is unreasonable.
What is even more disturbing are the people who say the girl had it coming. This is a sad world we live in now a days….
Peace
Esrunyx on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:19 am #
Amen Jam! I felt whe same way when I saw that video on the news. Young people have zero
Esrunyx on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:23 am #
Most young people have zero respect for authority. Some lessons are harder to learn than others. This is one of those examples. I just hope it ends up with these young ladies and others recognizing that respect for authority figures in this society isn’t always optional.
Cathee
on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:48 am #
Amen, Jam. Lack of respect and honor is rampant in our society, especially among the young. Like you, I was brought up to say “Yes sir,” and “No Ma’am,” to all people older than me and figures of authority such as police, teachers, etc. (My folks told me that if arrested, I should obey the officers and if a bogus arrest, that could be approached with lawyers at a later time, but NOT to argue with police in the moment.) Adults need to require children/young people to be respectful; I may be my children’s best advocate…I am NOT their best friend. Additionally, adults need to model this respect. There is a bent towards rude and crude these days, from trashy cell phone conversations held loudly wherever you go, to butts exposed everywhere. You’re quite right too Jam, those who make their fame and fortune off crying foul, even where none exists, are going to be all over this. (Where are these same people when it comes to the 2 wars we are fighting, in which I suspect the proportion of troops that are poor or non-white does not match the society at large. Why no protests?) This disrespect trancends race; I find it ironic that disrespect could point up commonalities among us.
Serenity- The use of force is sometimes necessary and is a tactic taught. (This was not excessive force, as had the officer hit her full force, she would be down with lights out.) What is sad is that not only is unacceptable and disrespectful behavior tolerated, people such as yourself defend it. Demand better of yourself and others.
Dawn
on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:58 am #
Jam, I totally agree with you. I work with law enforcement everyday. So I can see both sides of a situation. But the fact of the matter was both girls were wrong. And although, I didn’t agree with what the girls did, I don’t agree with the cop either. There should have been no physical altercation whatsoever. Not sure about Seattle, but in Michigan, the cops use tazer guns. That would have effectivly restrained both females and the officer would not have had to punch a young girl in her face.
West Coast Peach
on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:31 am #
Do officers not carry pepper spray anymore?? That’s all I kept wondering when I first saw the video.
And this is kinda old news, this officer is back on the beat already. And no, the NAACP, Sharpton, nor Jackson did not picket or raise fuss. I imagine they would have done so when this initially happened over a month ago.
lashawn on 19 Jul 2010 at 2:43 pm #
i think it’s a bit much. all of that drama and wrestling for jaywalking?
to me, it was more about him maintaining his ego after being embarrassed by almost being overpowered by two females.
would it have happened if they’d just gone to his patrol car and gotten a verbal lashing? maybe not. But do we have any idea of what happened before everyone started recording?
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:24 pm #
First, let me preface what I’m about to say with this: as a career military man, I kinda fancy myself as having a profound respect for authority, law, and order, for without these things no peaceful society can exist. Likewise, as a father, there is no way in hell that I would stand for, nor make excuses for, ANY CHILD OF MINE acting and carrying on in such a way that would give a police officer the slightest inclination to intervene (besides, I appreciate knowing that they’re still more afraid of ME than a badge :-D).
OK, now that I got that out of the way, I cannot express my disappointment in all of you–especially Jam–who find a scintilla of validation in the actions of that Seattle police officer. I’m not going to continue beating this horse, West Coast Peach and Lashawn were succinct enough in their rebuttals, and anyone wanting a in-depth analysis can read “Lies my Teacher Told Me,” by James Loewen).
What I will cry foul over is the insinuation that it’s now okay for cops to beat women. Since when did this site endorse misogyny? You cannot tell me that policemen aren’t as least as trained in diffusing situations as servicemen; this dude couldn’t handle two girls? Really? Sorry, but that dog won’t hunt, because HE held the greater burden of responsibility, not the assailants. Criminals are SUPPOSED TO act a fool; authority figures are supposed to hold a HIGHER STANDARD. If I were in his shoes, facing two belligerent women and what I thought to be a mob, I would’ve called BACKUP before I risked inciting more violence, ESPECIALLY given the racial and gender considerations. He never should’ve handled it alone, and what he did was irresponsible. And wrong. So what if he’s back on the street; he’s maybe a hero, perhaps a big man to many people, but in the eyes of enough of them, he’s a TARGET.
Anyway, getting back on subject, violence against women is completely unacceptable, and justifying it with trife lines such as “she deserved it,” or “she had it coming,” only makes it easy for the next Chris Brown to lay out your daughters over an (alleged) STD transmission; or a cop to “forget” what weapon is in what holster when he’s trying to “subdue” your cousin. If that little fucker couldn’t subdue either one of them without throwing punches, will he even have the situational awareness to differentiate a wallet from a Glock?
This is not reflective of a society coming together in celebration of justice rendered, but a consensus of cowardice from pockets of people who delight in the false security of righteousness, laced in little more than pretentiousness and fear. There’s an arrogance betrayed by beating this woman up over and again, whereas in the church, in our living rooms, in the doorways before we send our loved ones off, we still warn of DWB, “fitting the description,” and the like. Hyppocrites, the lot of you.
You know what, forget I ever said this, for now. But be well assured that one day, a woman you love is going to be on the wrong side of a man’s fist, be it a cop, a boyfriend, or someone else. And when some other woman lays out a list of reasons to basically say she deserved it, and you want to lash out at the world, remember the officer in Seattle, and your responses to this thread.
And may your words convict you all, as yours collectively have them.
jamdonaldson
on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:56 pm #
@ West Coast — The NAACP DID make a fuss and asked for the police chief to resign. Check your facts. And can I hekp it if my site was down and I was unable to post. I run a shoestring operation here people.
@Therren, this is not about violence against women. Please dont characterize it as a general justification for assaulting women. That is absolutely not what Im saying or what I believe.
This is not a boyfriend or a schoolyard fight. This is a police officer. And a police officer (like it or not) has plenary power over the citizenry. This is something young people should recognize. This was a lone cop faced with two belligerent females and a crowd egging them on. Man, woman, black, white– doesnt matter. You put your hands on an officer in the midst of a volatile situation, you may be assaulted. And, in my opinion, (which is worth about as much as you’re paying for it) justifably so.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 7:25 pm #
But that was exactly what you did, Jam, by insinuating that the officer was justified in punching the assailant. People are going to take away that she deserved it, that the cop not only had a right to do what he did, but also right in DOING so. that’s some dangerous shit to be spreading.
Put it this way: acknowledging my own contradictions on the matter, if this were, as you put it, a schoolyard fight or a boyfriend situation, then I would be the FIRST to say that she deserved it. No, I don’t absolve the puncher, but I would also say in both cases that the punched was wrong to think that she could act the way she did without consequence. Given the circumstances you provided, I’d take that stance because both parties are for the most part EQUAL in power and authority. It’s not the same thing when you consider what actually occurred, where an individual with greater power starches one with decidedly less.
This is about the fine line between power and control. Just because someone has vast power doesn’t mean said power is absolute. If it was a dude, that’s one thing. If they were all women, I wouldn’t say a thing (and I might say “Amen!” too). But if the woman is fucking UNARMED, or otherwise would be no real threat to the cop or to the crowd, then there’s no justifying the way Johnny Law handled that situation. I’ll grant you that he did his job, I guess, but he absolutely failed his mission. Also, keep in mind that the legitimacy of one’s power is in direct proportion to how one treats others. From the first slaves in recorded history to every victim of driving while black, people have long resisted power when it was used incorrectly, unfairly, violently. That guy was DAMN LUCKY that the “egging on” didn’t erupt into a full-fledged riot.
I say agian, when you are in a position of authority, you are held to a higher standard than the masses, and rightly so. When you act in a manner that’s no better than the criminals, you debase the just authority of all policemen and women, and that is something we cannot allow in a just society. It’s counterproductive to civility and order.
Without properly qualifying your words, you have given people a blank check to assalt people, especially women, even more so BLACK women, just because they acted a fool. And then someone will blog about how wrong it was, and boo-hoo about violence against women. These will be the same people who agree with you now, and that’s profoundly sad. You and I both know that the average person will hit upon one or two flash points without any meaningful analysis or critical thinking (this is why we have the Tea Party and the phony Black panthers running amok). It might not be what you’re saying, but what you’re IMPLYING is what people will take away.
Micah
on 19 Jul 2010 at 7:31 pm #
I am with you 100% Jam. For all the people saying that officers are trained for this are correct. Which is why she got popped upside the damn head! Let’s see what would happen to this officer, who probably only wanted to say something like “This is a busy street, use the crosswalk” (It’s been said to me by cops when I was younger so I’m not making excuses), and the person had warrants or a weapon or something else.
People always want to complain about police and I don’t understand why. 99% of cops are decent folks. We know them from the store, our kids go to school with them, we play softball with them…. The 1% that are douchebags screw it up for the rest of them. Fact is, most of us have no reason to hate cops. The vast majority of all of us (man, woman, black, white, rich, poor) don’t interact with the police in a negative way. All I can say is the next time someone starts shooting outside my window I’d rather call the cops than the assholes who were wrapped up in it, which is what seems to be the prevailing wisdom nowadays.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 7:57 pm #
Micah, I agree that the vast majority of policemen are professional men and women, who do a very dangerous and thankless job everyday with honor and respect (but 99%? Hell, no). This individual is one of the 1 percent. The fact that he reached the end result should not mitigate the fact that he fucked up. Police personnel, like military personnel, are not idolized gods (why we continue to put them on pedestals is beyond me); they are human beings who are just as fallible as you and I. I’m not anti-cop but will not apologize for refusing to succumb to hero worship. And of course you would call the cops if someone starts shooting outside your door. Isn’t this what ANYONE would do? Is that not what cops are PAID to do?
Whatever they guy’s intent, dude was wrong in how he did it. He should’ve called for help. He should’ve showed more patience and restraint. He should’ve had more situational awareness of his environment. This dude should not be treated as some hero, but strongly questioned by his superiors, even if they backed him in public. I’d be very surprised if changes in procedures don’t come out in the next year.
And if you don’t appreciate the historical (and I mean since before the Revolution, here!) animosity between police authority and the indigent, the nonwhite, and other socially ostracized people (notice how I did not say just black folks!), then I can’t help you. No one can.
Micah
on 19 Jul 2010 at 8:39 pm #
From what I am reading here it seems as though people think he should have called backup. Did it look like these girls were going to stop? No. So is he supposed to follow them shouting like Paul Blart Mall Cop? No. Was he supposed to wait for a female officer to show up? What is the solution?
This is not police brutality. Oscar Grant knows police brutality, Amadou Diala knows police brutality, Abner Louima knows police brutality, Sean Bell knows police brutality. This was not that. This was a mouthy disrespectful group of young women who hit a cop and got hit back. Which is what they deserved. Hell, Rodney King knows police brutality and he was driving drunk. HE knew enough to try to lay down and not cause more trouble! THAT was police brutality.
This is not Chris Brown and some overrated pop star. This is a cop who tried to get someone to respond to him. Was he ego maniacal? Probably. But should they have stopped? Yes. Should they have put their hands on him? No. Should they have hit him? No. Should he have hit her back? Probably not,but I don’t think he should be demonized.
I’ve had the pleasure of being black all of my life, and quite frankly poor for most of it too. I have been all over the world as a member of the military. Anyone here who wants to talk about police brutality, I have a suggestion: Take a trip to Somalia, or Bosnia, or the Middle East. Take a look at a government sponsored ethnic cleansing or maybe see someone who’s gotten their hand cut off for being ACCUSED of stealing. Considering that all this woman had to do to avoid this is shut the fuck up and do the simple task of what she was told is amazing.
I’m not making a hero of this or any other police officer. But maybe the responsibility of good behavior should not fall on the person who was just doing their job. Maybe the onus should be on the person who is fully capable of following simple instructions. Maybe if we ALL treated each other with more respect things like this wouldn’t happen. At what point does she become responsible for this situation and the part she had to play in it?
Lastly, I am not ignoring the socio/economical and historical precedent that may go into OUR perception of this. Not at all. But do you really believe that even on a subconscious level this woman is remembering freedom riders with fire hoses turned on them? Is she really thinking of COINTELPRO? I doubt it. More often than not she’s just a self absorbed, misguided, and just plain rude “lady” that no one on this board would want to be anywhere near for any considerable amount of time.
Does that excuse the cop? No. The fact that she hit him first does.
q2za on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:22 pm #
“…I say again, when you are in a position of authority, you are held to a higher standard than the masses, and rightly so. When you act in a manner that’s no better than the criminals, you debase the just authority of all policemen and women …”
+1
I have to agree with Therren. This is not about whether or not the use of force was justified, whether it was a case of “police brutality.” The cop had a weapon, and (hopefully) years of training and experience in dealing with these types of situations. When kids swear at teachers and call them assholes to their face, teachers shouldn’t call them an asshole back - because they’re the adult. They’re the ones in authority, with experience, and thus held to higher standards of behavior.
Obviously, the women should have known better than to *hit* a cop, but the cop should have known better than to hit back. That’s the problem here. Both sides are in the wrong, but the cop, being the professional, should have known how to handle it better.
to the nay-sayers
on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:25 pm #
ok i’m confused? so you guys would have preferred that he hit her with a baton? or tasered? or peppered sprayed in the eyes?
have you ever been tasered? or peppered sprayed? i’m a woman, and i would rather be punched.
trust that.
MrShabazz
on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:56 pm #
While it galls me to see a white cop hit a Black girl, what should he have done? Some people here say he should have simply “handled” those two girls. I ask what should he have done, should he have sat them down over tea and given them a tongue lashing?
Many cops would have pulled out their service weapon and pumped six rounds into the young girl. He showed restraint.
I’m in no hurry to defend a cop but that girl was in the wrong.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:36 pm #
HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED BACKUP. How freaking difficult is that to understand?
I get that those girls were wrong–dead wrong–and nothing I said ever excused their actions. However, why is it that we are in such a hurry to demonize these girls (and for all I know and saw on the video, they could have been simply, yet erroneously, standing up for one another), but refuse to hold the officer at least minimally culpable for the fracas?
And nobody by the name of Therren Dunham ever stated, explicitly or tacitly, that it was an example of police brutality, and anyone who would is guilty of trivializing the nameless, faceless victims of such abuse.
The cop should’ve called for help the minute he felt the situation was leaving his grasp. NO COP is trained to be the Lone Ranger. And yes, if it got that bad, he should’ve called a squad car to pick them up in the direction they were walking, AWAY from the crowd. He never should have tried to go it alone, especially when he didn’t have to.
Thus, holding up placards with the name of Grant, Louima, Diallo, et. al., doesn’t move me one damn bit. It’s disingenious to try to paint this as a zero-sum equation only when it supports your cause. And I’d wager that their survivors would side with the girls, anyway.
But I guess it’s far easier to point fingers at dirty little countries that can’t feed their own people than to look inward to one’s own, to face the clutter and disarray in our front yards before we call out our neighbors for the hose that’s left unspun in their fenced-in back yard. Nothing more American than that. But hey, I’m just a soldier, who have (also, Micah!) seen the best and worst of Afghanistan and Iraq (sorry, was in high school for Somalia). And guess what? that shit has NOTHING to do with what went on in Seattle. Neither did Oakland. Neither did New York. I’ll even do you a favor and dismiss the multiple killings of unarmed black men in Cincinnati, too. Who cares.
As far as Chris Brown, it’s no slippery slope. When you allow a cop to punch out a woman, why stop there? Why stop at plain old belligerence? Why not justify rape because she dressed like a slut, or being called a prostitute by your teacher for the same thing? Why not acquiesce in allowing redlining, blackballing, and gentrification to further decimate and marginalize our communities? I mean, I guess they deserve it too, right?
WHERE DOES IT STOP? When do we stop seeing this as an either/or instead of a both/and? Why can’t we hold authority figures accountable along with those who are under them?
Lastly, to answer Micah’s question, here’s what I believe she was thinking: that she and her friend were getting messed with because they were black. Not slavery, not the Trail of Tears, not the Holocaust, not Rosa Parks, but that they were being fucked with for a very minor thing. And no, that wasn’t enough to put hands on a cop, but it’s no less a valid mindset for a grown ass man to hit a girl.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:39 pm #
@MrShabazz: He didn’t show enough. See above post.
@to the nay-sayers: ditto.
@q2za: THANK YOU for seeing this for what it is, and what it isn’t.
dc_mom
on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:48 pm #
i dont know where u guys are from, but in DC, girls fight, carry guns and will shank u just as quick as a guy will.
now i’m not promoting violence against anyone including girls. but really, come on now.
call back up? while holding them down? should he have just let them go? because they would have both ran if the friend were able to get out of his grip.
i repeat violence against women is wrong. but this isnt the 50’s, sometimes girls are asking for it.
i’m a woman. i dont pretend to be able to overpower a man, because i know i cant.
these girls were stupid. being punched was easy, quick and got the job done.
fyi for ALL WOMEN, you can’t cry “i’m just a girl” when u are acting like a man.
u wanna be a man, and fight a man? fine, then be able to take punches like one too …
THERREN DUNHAM
on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:02 pm #
I’ll remember that the next time I see a woman getting beat up. Yep, she probably asked for it.
Thanks for taking progress back about a hundred years. Now let’s make marital rape legal again (eye roll).
dc_mom
on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:07 pm #
lmao. why are u so extreme? i guess in your eyes all women are defenseless, naive and delicate?
save it dude. lets see what u have to say when a girl robs you at gunpoint the next time you walking down the street late at night in my neighborhood.
lmao. call for back up?
Micah
on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:12 pm #
Okay, so this is not a discussion of police brutality, race, class or oppression? It is merely a gender issue? Fine. But being a woman does not excuse her from the same treatment that society has to live with. If she shot at him should he wait for a female officer to shoot back? The point is that police are authorized to use whatever means of force they see fit. Regardless of whether your sex organs are tucked away or hang free. Or at least that’s how they keep getting away with all of the shit they pull.
And Therren: be happy you missed Somalia. Words do not describe it.
blackcop
on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:14 pm #
as a black cop i am with the officer in the video. chick 1 was trying to get away, chick 2 interfered AND touched him- a NO NO. she got what she asked for.
thanks Jam for reminding us about authority. cops are hated until they are needed. go figure.
Speaklife
on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:34 pm #
I don’t know…is it showing a lack of respect or is it that the younger generation has not been as suppressed or conditioned to “remain in our place,” as we had been?
Your remarks about simply putting your hands behind your back if told to do so by the police (although very funny cause I would have done it too) reminded me of a recent incident in which I was involved.
I was at a tennis tournament. The venue was not even 1/3 full and it was 2 games left to complete the match; so of course the empty seats were probably going to remain empty. I moved a few rows closer to the box seats. Sitting near me in different rows were a caucasian lady and her daughter and a caucasian man (they were not together).
I caught the attention of the volunteer usher because everyone around me was cheering for one lady, while I was cheering for the other player (I noticed that she would look at me every now and then.)
This tournament is not the type of one where you have to show your ticket for seating or to get into center court or any of the other stadiums. When the usher had an opportunity, she came over to me and asked if the seat I was in was my seat and to see my ticket? I respectfully told her no it was not. I got my ticket out for her to confirm that it was not my seat. (Why did I do that? I had just turned 50 and my word should have been enough!) However, if I had simply said yes, it would not have been enough for her, she wanted to see my ticket. At the same time, if I was in the correct seat, I still would have shown her my ticket to prove it was my seat.
I asked the usher as I nodded towards the other people, if she were going to ask them? (Turning 50 will do that for you, lol, make you feel grown up!) The usher reluctantly asked the lady who had witnessed the usher approach me and the lady said no it wasn’t her seat. She and her daughter simply got up without showing their tickets. The usher again reluctantly went over to the caucasian man, and asked him if it were his seat, and he firmly said yes and turned back to his business. The usher didn’t say another word to him…she didn’t ask him for his ticket…
The lesson I learned from this is that the caucasian man’s actions were of the mentality that we all should have no matter what race. Our word should be enough. I didn’t have to be submissive to the usher’s position of authority. But, we older generation of blacks have been conditioned to respect authority. Sometimes it is good, but sometimes, not so good. We deserve the same respect as others.
I bought box seats for this years tournament. Let the usher ask me again (which I’m sure they will because they don’t expect that “we” can afford box seating. smh) I will simply say yes and let’s see what happens. (I have my spy camera pen ready to put the incident on YouTube, lol)
Good article…love your writing.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:29 pm #
@dc_mom: try looking up ’sarcasm’ in the dictionary.
@micah: I get your point, and I don’t think that any one issue predominates the others. I also don’t think that either of them are delicate creatures that have to be treated with kid gloves.
I think both of you, respectfully speaking, are missing my point. I had hoped that this would go without mentioning, but because it seems apparent that too many of you think otherwise, let me state for the record that a) I NEITHER ENDORSE NOR CONDONE THE ACTIONS OF THOSE WOMEN, and b) ANY SYMPATHY I MAY HAVE FOR THEM ARE TEMPERED BY THEIR BEHAVIOR BEFORE THE PUNCH. Are we clear now? Can we all agree to those points? I hope so.
So let’s do away with the hypotheticals. If I were in DC (and I’d be an idiot to walk streets that I’m not knowledgeable about–you know, that whole situational awareness thing), and were robbed, she’d most likely be dead if I were alone. If I had my family, their protection comes first, so most likely the bitch can have whatever trinkets were in my possession. If the women were armed in that video, ANYTHING that cop would have done to protect himself would have been ok with me. But those women were unarmed. And one shove does not warrant a punch, gender be damnned. Thus, I submit that while law enforcement have a wide lattitude to enforce order, the use must be APPROPRIATE to the situation at hand. That’s the disconnect between those who support the cop and the others who find fault on both sides (Okay, here’s where I say again that virtually NOBODY here supports these women in the least!). His use of force was EXCESSIVE, but not necessarily ABUSIVE (big enough distinction for me; can’t speak for others). Given what he SHOULD HAVE DONE, he was wrong all day; as as much as his superiors supported him in public, behind closed doors I’m very certain that they gave him a thorough dressing down. Deservedly so.
Accusations of extremetism are divisive, and take away from the heart of the discussion. I think I covered all of your critiques. And if you walk away unconvinced that’s okay, too.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:37 pm #
@blackcop: They asked to be arrested, prosecuted, and held accountable under the law. They did not asked to be punched. Knowing that this may not sit well with you, I have to say that I expect more from a policeman.
@micah: Well noted (Somalia). One day I’d like to hear your stories. Not to comapre notes, per se, but it would be a privilege to hear about what went on over there, what “Black Hawk Down” didn’t tell us. I’m happy that I left Bagram, Kandahar, and Taji in one piece.
blackcop
on 21 Jul 2010 at 12:24 am #
@therren dunham: who wakes up in the morning and asks to be punched in the face? When chick2 placed her hands on a cop who was engaged with another his survival instinct kicked in. He defended himself. Just because she was a girl does not exclude her from being a threat. Of all the body parts the hands are the one that will kill you. We are trained to take NOONE for granted, because you do NOT know what others are capable of. He did the right thing. He didn’t pummel her, he did not raise his hand to hit her again. Once he got her off of him he continued to do what he started to do. Handcuff the first idiot for not complying. All of this could have been avoided if chick would have complied with the original order- stupid as it was.
Anonymous on 21 Jul 2010 at 10:42 am #
Therren I didnt think people like you still existed. I can appreiciate the fact that some people still use their brain and not jusitify immature, ignorant,and obviously abusive behavior as upholding the law or saying that these women got what they deserved . I am a little confused as to how any Black person can rationlize the officer punching a person in the face . What message are we trying to send by giving TRAINED person the ok to punch someone for jaywalking ? Respect for authority ? When have these so called authority figures ever had respect for Black people? That is not a rhetorical question.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 21 Jul 2010 at 6:51 pm #
blackcop on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:14 pm #
as a black cop i am with the officer in the video. chick 1 was trying to get away, chick 2 interfered AND touched him- a NO NO. she got what she asked for.
blackcop on 21 Jul 2010 at 12:24 am #
@therren dunham: who wakes up in the morning and asks to be punched in the face?
So, apparently, you answered your own question with your first post.
blackcop on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:14 pm #
thanks Jam for reminding us about authority. cops are hated until they are needed. go figure.
I’m sorry you feel that way, especially since the vast majority here SUPPORTED the officer, and virtually no one said anything close to expressing a hatred of law enforcement.
blackcop on 21 Jul 2010 at 12:24 am
Just because she was a girl does not exclude her from being a threat. Of all the body parts the hands are the one that will kill you. We are trained to take NOONE for granted, because you do NOT know what others are capable of. He did the right thing.
No, sir, he did the EXPEDIENT thing. I can understand that his fight or flight mechanism kicked in; yes, people in our professions are trained to react, and do so quickly. HOWEVER, we are also trained to THINK even faster. And that’s where his situational awareness shouldv’e kicked in as well. Given the situation (and respecting that hindsight is 20/20), it’s clear that he didn’t think. If he felt that he was in so much danger, he should’ve called for at least another car. Hell, nowadays you’ll get three squad cars for a routine traffic stop, for the very reasons you just gave us. And regardless of the outcome, he was incredibly fortunate that it never got more out of hand. God forbid what might have occurred had anyone in that crowd intervened. He could’ve been easily overpowered; he could’ve shot an innocent bystander uninvolved in the meelee. Thank God it didn’t happen.
blackcop on 21 Jul 2010 at 12:24 am
All of this could have been avoided if chick would have complied with the original order- stupid as it was.
This point is universally agreed upon.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 21 Jul 2010 at 7:03 pm #
All I can say, Anonymous, is that law enforcement are no different than any other segment of society. The vast majority are true professionals who carry out their duties with competence and care. The unfortunate few make the rest look bad, because they always get the attention of the community and the press. It’s sad that we don’t acknowledge the good ones more, but that’s just the way it is. But isn’t that just like flying? Even though they have a remarkable track record, every plane crash hits the news, while car wrecks barely make the papers. Fair? Dunno.
I think what some of us want to point out is that respect is a two-way street, and that any historical analysis ultimately takes away from what it is and isn’t here. And as always, the message is always mixed.
q2za on 21 Jul 2010 at 9:41 pm #
Why is gender even a point? The point is that the cop got too worked up and hit the person in the face. Hitting girls is not a good look, but even if this was a similarly unarmed man, the cop should have known better. I think we’re arguing about different points here. Therren & I are pointing out that by the mere virtue of being a cop, the cop should not have punched anyone in the face, if that person was unarmed - he should have simply known better to. It does not matter whether she deserved it. We don’t pay cops to get into idiotic street brawls. We pay them to handle situations as professionals. The cop here got into a lose-lose situation (let the girls go, lose face; physically subdue girls, may end up worse; call for back-up, and lose time, etc) and happened to pick not the best option.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 21 Jul 2010 at 9:58 pm #
For the sake of inetgrity, I was the one who threw up the gender issue. And while I feel my arguments pertaining are valid, I also understand and agree that the actions of the cop, in and of itself, is the larger issue.
So Jam, I ask your forgiveness, as I appeared to go overboard with the mysoginy thing. Truce?
Alexis
on 22 Jul 2010 at 6:24 pm #
Before I can address the police officer at all, the woman should NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT have pushed a cop away to help her friend escape. If she were white, this wouldn’t even be news. This isn’t like the cop who stomped on the Latino and threatened “I’ll beat the sh*t out of your Mexican @ss, homey!” This isn’t like the cops who punched Omar Grant for no reason, then had him face down on the ground and shot him dead. The cop’s response wasn’t the best, but it shouldn’t have even come to that point. I love my friends but if you’re getting arrested, you’re getting arrested, I’m not catching one in the face for you.
AVERAGE JOE on 23 Jul 2010 at 4:01 pm #
I tried to read most of the post, but basically punch or not he regained control of the situation. You cannot be mad about the punch! He could have slammed her down and cuffed her, tasered her then she would have fell hit her head and he would have been in a world of trouble.
The one young lady pushed/assaulted the officer…she was a good size girl… the punch regained control…plain and simple …she was in the wrong
you can’t chastise the officer, he didn’t beat the crap out of her, she didn’t fall to the ground, it was one punch, the taser and spray would have been worse…..
This is not women beating, and to think that a woman who assaults a cop shouldn’t be treated like a man is foolish. Some women can kick a men’s butt. Women aren’t all fragile little sticks, you better watch some fights on youtube lol
AVERAGE JOE on 23 Jul 2010 at 4:09 pm #
It was reasonable force
Look at the punch-she didn’t hit the ground! *he could have punched harder*
allow someone to punch you the same way
-then get pepper sprayed
also note how long it takes to get pepper spray and not let go of the person you’re arresting
-then try getting tasered
also note how long it takes to get taser and not let go of the person you’re arresting
consider the pain of all and the amount of time you have…. #get over the punch, don’t resist, don’t hit an officer!!!!
AVERAGE JOE
on 23 Jul 2010 at 4:12 pm #
*excuse me, she pushed him back a step or two so he had to let go of the girl he was trying to arrest…. SMH
blackcop
on 23 Jul 2010 at 5:49 pm #
he did what he needed to. he could have given her the business. BUT he didn’t. he even called one of the hecklers “sir” when he asked him to move back. Many people do NOT know what cops have to deal with on a daily basis. We have to deal with the idiots who don’t respect authority, the idiots who think that they know the law (and don’t), the idiots who call you to intimidate whomever they’re beefing with; but really don’t want you, the idiots who call cops for their bad behind kids; because they can’t discipline them, the idiots who follow cops around looking for a “story”, the idiots waiting for their “youtube” moment, the idiots who believe that cops are supposed to be exceptionally nice to everyone who wants to kill them, the idiots who kill cops, then there are the actual criminals. I could go on…
THERREN DUNHAM
on 23 Jul 2010 at 7:46 pm #
blackcop: GET. OFF. THE. CROSS.
Seriously.
Many people don’t know what cops go through because they don’t care. They haven’t cared since they were taught social studies in the second grade. And why should they?
Look, when I’m deployed, I don’t give a shit if the locals love me or pray every day to the east for my death. I do my job. It doesn’t matter how bad my day was, how much I miss my kids, if my buddy got blown out the sky or if the HMMV next to me was hit by an IED. I STILL have to get up, brush it off, and handle my business. And do it by the book, not out of any emotions. When you’re a professional, you keep your feelings/animosities/insecurities in check.
So, as a soldier, though I have IMMENSE respect for the hazards your profession faces EVERY DAY (as compared to about once a generation for mine), I also don’t feel sorry for you one bit. Your job is to protect and serve, not to win popularity contests. And I’d say that if you were a fellow serviceman, a retail clerk, or the lady at the drive-thru. I don’t care how fucked up my day is, I still have to give you the consideration I would want for myself. And when I engage law enforcement, I expect the very same. Because I’m entitled to that.
The people that you whine about, they don’t matter. They’re part of the deal, and you should accept that. I don’t expect people to be exceptionally nice to me because I’m in uniform, but I know that regardless I’m expected to handle myself accordingly. Like we always say, nobody cares about how well you do your job until you stop doing it.
And, please don’t think that I’m an apologist to those idiots. They get the same scrutiny from me when they bitch and moan about being questioned for looking a certain way, wearing certain colors, or hanging out in known crime areas. I say to both of you, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! In my mind, the people’s problem with cops is the same as the cops’ problem with the people. You all have a mutual disdain for one another, and carry the same chip on your shoulders. Chicken and the egg with me, so it doesn’t matter who started it or why. You’re BOTH the problem, and the solution can only come when you two come together.
Something to think about the next time you’re walking the beat.
ms mac
on 25 Jul 2010 at 12:17 pm #
I totally cosign with the statement about bad ass kids on the train/bus. They have zero respect for authority & for adults, no matter how nice you try to be. Case in point: Just last week I’m on the train and this young dude has his music up so loud you can clearly hear the words thru his earphones. Now mind you, this is 7:30am on a workday. So after about 20 minutes of dealing with that shit and seeing that nobody was gonna say anything (note even the poor girl sitting next to him), I turned around and said, “Excuse me, can you please turn that down a little?” Don’t you know that little bastard just looked at me and kept on keeping on. He never turned it down. And everybody just sat there and took it. Now if I had called him all kids of m-fers and disrespected the shit outta him I guarantee some people would’ve been talking about how “I” should have been the adult. But yet when I speak up, not one other adult supports what I’m trying to do to show this little bastard that he was in the wrong. WTF??? Lose-lose situation.
As for Ms Thang that got arrested, I just wanna know why it took so long for him to restrain her if he was being so “brutal.” Obviously he wasn’t trying to hurt her because he could have twisted the shit out of her arms and got her under control faster. So the way I see it, he was either extremely incapable of handling her - which is unlikely since he’s a cop and has to restrain men that may be bigger than him - or he did his best not to hurt her intentionally. Again, lose-lose.
And as for the chick that got clocked, she deserved it. Being from NYC one thing you learn in to NEVER put your hands on a cop. WTF was she thinking? I feel like she just got that S on her chest from people egging it on. But that’s what you get for being fast. Now if he shot tasered her ass and she went into cardiac arrest and died, then HE would’ve been wrong. What I said before: Lose-lose.
alice in wonderbread
on 25 Jul 2010 at 11:15 pm #
Although I agree w/Jam, he wouldn’t have punched a white woman like that!!! you can’t deny it.
blackcop
on 25 Jul 2010 at 11:16 pm #
THERREN DUNHAM: let me make this short and sweet. you’re a soldier and as a son of a soldier i have a nothing but respect, BUT. you don’t patrol your local streets. you are in a hostile environment in a foreign land. we are not. we have to live with these idiots. and your thinking shows the level of idiocy we deal with. i know what i signed up for, and i would do it again- BUT the question is if he was in the wrong for face blasting an idiot and i say yes.
Cathee
on 26 Jul 2010 at 11:28 am #
I have to wonder if calling in backup would have escalated the situation. Fear of “slippery slopes” can immobilize, as in fear of supporting all-out police brutality by simply saying this single blow was warranted in this single situation. No one here is saying that they support police brutality; I do think those here are expressing total frustration/exhasperation with the lack of respect, honor, and integrity so prevalent today, and how it is impacting society.
MzPoodle1
on 26 Jul 2010 at 11:49 am #
Wow. Just wow. So it’s ok for a grown ass man to punch a child in the face…. FOR JAY WALKING!! I can’t. I simply CANNOT. I. just. need. to. go.
MzPoodle1
on 26 Jul 2010 at 11:53 am #
I’m think the “Yes she shoulda been punched” people either got grown kids, or no kids.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 26 Jul 2010 at 4:07 pm #
@blackcop: actually, I’m not deployed right now; I’m active duty at Ft Rucker, Alabama. I live in a small town with more cops per capita than Atlanta. A town boasting its own SWAT team and armored vehicle, but with more cows than people. Literally.
But never mind that; if even you say that the cop was wrong for the punch, then why are you going out of your way to justify it? Yeah, I’m protective of the Army, too, but I’m not gonna defend the indefensible.
@Cathee: Your point, that supporting the punch equates to supporting brutality being a slippery slope, is noted. I say in my defense, however, that my concern was not promoting brutality per se, but mysoginy. And you’re right, no one, including myself, supports or accused others of supporting police brutality.
But the faux exasperation of respect’s decline is a non-sequitr in its own right. Piggybacking on Poodle’s comments, I think there’s a collective conscioussness in society that wants to exault the best on one’s generation while omitting/marginalizing/whitewashing the worst. In other words, there’s a lot of people speaking out of false nostalgia and selective memory. (you can never tell a black person living at that time that the 1940s were America’s ‘greatest generation,’ when black soldiers were hung from trees in their Class As) If anything, I think respect has INCREASED with people’s assertion of their self-determination. Now does that make things perfect? Of course not, as we see in this video. But people who want to claim that things are so bad now should acknowledge that it wasn’t so good back then. Crime was still running rampant in poor and minority areas. Cops were still using extralegal measures of enforcement. Parents were still negligent, and children were still truant. Outside of AIDS, what problems we have today haven’t afflicted us before 1980? And no, crack doesn’t count, because there was still cocaine.
The problems of today’s youth stems from from adults not handling their business. Kids have no nrespect for authority and adults because they don’t see any adult authority figures worthy of respect. And until we go after THE ADULTS and not the kids, then we’re only chasing our own tails.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 26 Jul 2010 at 4:23 pm #
(clarified for grammar and clarity)
The problems of today’s youth stem from from adults not handling their business. Kids have no respect for authority and adults because they don’t see adult authority figures worthy of respect. So, until we go after THE ADULTS and not the kids, then we’re only chasing our own tails.
MzPoodle1
on 27 Jul 2010 at 11:20 am #
People just because you like what Jam is doin, doesn’t mean you have to agree with something you know is completely unnecessary and total bullshit. Yall know this shit is wrong. And it if was one of your family members or friends, you’d be outraged. All this clit-ridin is so stupid. Jam says stuff like this to get attention. She’s got a job to do. Yall asses aint gettin no where co-signing this bullshit.
Micah
on 27 Jul 2010 at 11:33 am #
I don’t need someone to post something to tell me what I think or how I feel. I don’t need to validate someone’s opinion to feel as though I validate my own. And I don’t think this cop was wrong. She hit a cop. He hit her back. End of story. And if it was one of my family members they would need to get popped too. I can sympathize with all of the people who DON’T agree with the cops actions, but I do. I know if I hit a cop I’m going to get hit back. It is one of the last of the great equalizers. Hit a cop and get hit back. It’s simple. I don’t understand how there is a disconnect between that. If she came at him with a knife is it okay? What about a gun? And if that is the case are we saying that a woman can physically abuse an officer of the law to their hearts content? When does the cop have a right to defend himself? When does the cop have a right to execute the duty of his job without people saying he was wrong? For all the people who say the cop was wrong please answer those questions for me. At the end of the day lets not forget: she hit him first. Imagine how different this discussion would be if SHE had kept her hands to herself.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 27 Jul 2010 at 3:36 pm #
Poodle, you know I’m with you, and I agree that there’s a lot of people riding the bandwagon here, but I don’t think that Jam is putting stuff out for shock value. As much as I disagree with her position, I have to acknowledge that there is a sizable majority who do, and would so even if she hadn’t put this out. And YES, I do agree that people’s positions would be very different had it been their daughters/friends/loved ones. Some of the people co-signing would likely act the same way those girls did; they were just lucky to not get clocked. It’s easy to be judgemental when it’s not you, agreed. But we gotta give folks a little credit here: their conscioussness didn’t just come about because of this site.
Micah, I answered these questions already. Life, limb, or eyesight, and whatever it takes to subdue an assailant is completely justifiable. A simple shove…not so much. Nobody’s saying that cops can’t or shouldn’t defend themselves; we are saying that their actions should reflect the situation. And when said officer appears to exceed the boundaries of social acceptance, then he should expect to garner some scrutiny from the public. If this were a black cop punching a white girl, the outrage from the Fox News crowd would be enormous (and no, it’s not fair, but that’s not the point). She hit (actually shoved) him first. So what? To me, no one rises to the occaision; one simply falls back to the level of one’s training, be it from the academy or what one gets from home.
You are right on that last sentence, though.
novokane
on 28 Jul 2010 at 2:40 am #
So I’ve read this entire blog from what everyone had to say. I have even watched the video twice to make sure I can formulate the same opinion each time I viewed it. The problem that occurred here is that the girls displayed lack of respect. No one likes to be questioned by a police officer especially when you feel it wasn’t warranted. Fact is, when police question you…as one of the bloggers said, “respond with yes sir, no sir “. Now as you all did, we can justify both sides for eternity about what’s appropriate or inappropriate. That’s all subjective. I’m not a fan of the police, however Until you are trained to be a local police officer and understand the type of situations they experience daily, in my opinion your determination of what’s appropriate is irrelevant. That’s like someone tell you that you handled a situation inappropriately in your profession when they have no clue for never being in that situation “in your profession”. I know police officers cannot afford to wait for the extreme. We can sit here and say the cop should have….or could have….but he didn’t. So what do you do now? You have to improvise in accordance to your training and let me add that training for use of force is different in every state. And being former military, let me be clear that you cannot compare the two. Different rules of engagement, environment, and training. Military and local police as well as other law enforcement hierarchies have different experiences with training in accordance to them. So back to “what do you do?” so Your an authoritive figure at your job and you missed a step or two from your handy dandy training manual due to for whatever reason. Professional or unprofessional, we are all human…which means we are liable to make mistakes. Like the Blogger from Michigan, it could have been a taser versus a punch. Either wouldn’t be any better, but my point is…he needed to control the situation and did what HIS TRAINING taught him to do (whether we agree or not), especially in lone situations. If you have a problem with the way police conduct there training, then do something about it instead of commenting about any police related altercation that make the 11 o’clock news and feeling “critical thinking” is more of a solution to make a difference. But until then, just know if you engage a police officer, don’t expect the officer to question you on why your engaging him.
MzPoodle1
on 28 Jul 2010 at 9:05 am #
@Therran I see your point. I did kinda talk outta on that one.
Joah
on 28 Jul 2010 at 11:07 am #
The best way to understand this story is to strip the emotional elements out of it. Take out the gender issue. Take out the race issue. That way you’re left with pure training. What was the officer taught to do if he was trying to “handle” one subject and another person interfered? I’m assuming the training doesn’t call for the officer to allow the subjects to run off while he waits for backup. I’m also certain it doesn’t say pepper spray them both. You can throw gender and race in all you want, but I think the officer was conscious of the fact that he needed to handle the situation and the punch was a step toward doing so after being physically impacted by the second subject.
Joah’s last blog post..A Good Formula for Austin’s Future
Smif on 28 Jul 2010 at 11:10 am #
“THATS WHAT SHE GETS!!!”
- Smif in Seattle
THERREN DUNHAM
on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:22 pm #
@Poodle: You’re always alright with me.
@Joah: If ONLY we could distill race, gender, class, culture…it’s not going to happen. This matter wasn’t created in a vacuum. Since we don’t know what his training was, or Seattle’s policy on such incidents, all we have are our gut instincts and our perceptions of what right looks like. If that officer was as conscious of his environment as you give him credit for, then he should have never put himself in a place where he’d unwittingly escalate the situation. You have to take all variables into consideration. Taking any one out only distorts the facts. Procedures are invoked, rescinded, or solidified not only on facts, but also perspectives. Not just how things happened, but also why. There’s no reason why one can’t look at all the angles and still be objective, unless you don’t want to deal with those things to begin with.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 28 Jul 2010 at 8:00 pm #
@novokane: I take great umbrage with the way you expressed your opinion. First of all, all of these posts are subjective, even yours, as I assume that you are not the spokesperson for the Seattle Police. Thus, I find it incredibly condescending that you would imply that those who disagree with you (or Jam, or the Seattle police), are unqualified to hold an opinion. This blog is not a support group benefitting the Fraternal Order of Police (and Poodle, here’s your jock rider; sic ‘em!); it’s an OPEN FORUM for everybody to voice their viewpoint. So what if we’re not all cops (or their apologists); we all live with law enforcement, we worship with them, we depend on them to keep us safe, and we are all affected by what they do (and don’t do). We speak because we care, and to say that our collective voices are irrelevant because we aren’t in his shoes (and by the way, what about those of us who were in those girls?!), says more about you than it ever could about us.
Furthermore, civilian law enforcement and the military aren’t that different. There’s a reason why military personnel are heavily recruited by federal, state, and local law enforcement. We understand the importance of discipline; we know about riot control; we know sleep deprivation; we know about working long hours and inconsistent shifts; we know about utilizing the appropriate use of force. Because we know these things, ex-military tend to be more successful crossing over to law enforcement than many people coming off the street. I don’t know whow a veteran can make such an asinine statement, unless you just did the 2-year enlistment and rode a desk your entire career.
And don’t give me this crap about people being human. We don’t say that whenever some fry jocket forgets the extra mayo in your Whopper. In some jobs, when people make mistakes, we don’t say that the offending party was human. We see humans DIE. This is why discipline and training are important. And when that fails, this is why THINKING is even more critical. Had someone not think to properly assess every possible angle on the battlefield, no army could ever win a war. An employee who cannot stay ahead of his situation is worthless to me, because by the time you recat to what’s in front of you, it’s already too late. Calling backup is PROACTIVE; it MITIGATES RISK. Dude recated with a punch because he didn’t THINK.
And finally, for your last worthless statement, ever given the slightest consideration that maybe, just maybe, getting involved and ssharing one’s experiences IS doing something about it? Ever stop to think that perhaps many of the people here are active in their communities, and work to alleviate tensions between the police and the neighborhoods they serve? Do you really believe that everybody who exibits disdain for the cop’s actions are diametrically opposed to the rule of law? Really? Are you truly that ignorant? And maybe the best, and simplest, thing one does everyday is live his/her life to a point where s/he is looked upon with dignity and respect. I don’t have a problem with law enforcement. But i’m not gonna play house nigger for them, either.
Renee
on 28 Jul 2010 at 9:52 pm #
Okay…..so I usually do not blog, but I had to chime in on this. I must admit, the first few seconds of the video I was prepared to see another video of a cop abusing their authority. Then as I kept watching I found myself disgusted at the behavior of these two young ladies (if you want to call them ladies). As a woman, I wanted to feel sorry for her getting punched in the face, but by the end of the video I wished the cop would have punched both of them in the face for being disrespectful.
I think in recent years young folks have lost respect for any type of authority. This is evident in this video. I am not a fan of the police, but I know if I am told to stop and obey…I damn sure better do it.
novokane
on 28 Jul 2010 at 10:52 pm #
LOL! Oh man…where do I start?! LOL! I must say, you are definitely predictable. I was HOPING with someone with your intellect that you would probably provide some kind of insight more along the point of my blog. As I can see…I am mistaken. Your entire response is pretentious. You’ve dedicated 4 long paragraphs, which contained no substance, however I am honored to receive such attention. I also enjoyed the side humor or the lack thereof. With all the attention, now it’s time to return the gesture.
I can definitely say my statements have taken a toll on you Mr. Dunham. I wonder why I have gotten under your skin. (sarcasm) So, I’m reading your response and truly wonder if you were even IN the military…maybe you consider the Coast Guard the real military? That’s fine for a legitimate comparison, right? (sarcasm) You’re beginning to sound like one of Sarah Palin’s campaign speeches. Let me provide you some solid facts about military personnel vs. civilian police. 1) You have no authority! 2) Again, you have NO AUTHORITY. 3) JAG only has authority to charge anyone. Oh yeah, the CID agents are over you as well. Have you ever heard of the UCMJ, which restricts a lot of your abilities? And no, it doesn’t stand for University of Children-Michael Jackson. With all of that being said, you know what that means, right? You’re basically a “bullet cushion” for other personnel like me. Just because you was a grunt, pulling multiple graveyard shifts, checking ID’s at a gate in the Middle East, causing sleep deprivation, and maybe doing fingerprinting is not a definitive or legitimate reason for what you call, “easy transition” to the civilian police force. Obviously, you are not a civilian police officer. If you were, you would know that military personnel are actually LOOKED DOWN UPON by the civilian police, especially the MP’s (if you wanted to “sign up”). Trust me, I know!
They have NO experience, which is the leading reason, unless your speaking of joining a force in small towns like Mayberry (from the Andy Griffith show).
So, since you feel like you are superior and no one is suppose to make mistakes, I won’t even comment on that matter. You’ve already displayed your lack of realism and competence in regards to that response. I also will not comment about you expecting me to believe you are “POSSIBLY” active in your community. If you were, your responses would contain a lot more rhetoric, Mr. Dunham.
THERREN DUNHAM
on 29 Jul 2010 at 4:28 pm #
Don’t flatter yourself, ‘novokane.’ You’re just practice for my next battle with Ilion.
Pretentiousness is not standing up for people’s opinions, whether I support them or not. Pretentiousness would be using words you barely know in an attempt to save face.
I don’t have to be in law enforcement to know what right looks like. And I don’t need some cartoon ranger, E-wannabe lecturing me on my opinions. If you want to put me down in print, at least learn how to fucking write.
And no, I’m not an infantryman, but let me tell you: YOU CAN’T DO WHAT I DO. YOUR GT SCORE’S NOT HIGH ENOUGH. Likewise, I’ll gladly put my ERB against yours anyday.
MPs have plenty of authority. No, they can’t charge you with any crime, but they can detain you, tell you where to go, issue citations, direct traffic, and perform any other function that their civilian counterparts do. The jobs are quite congruent, if not exacting in scope. Yet strangely, nobody here even specified military policemen, just the similarities between military tactics and policemen. But you know that already; no, you throw out some useless verbiage contrasting MPs and cops in a vain attempt to fluff up your nonsensical argument. You could have just left that to the guys who knew what they were talking about, as they did a much better job than you. Whatever.
Pick up any edition of the Army Times and look at the classifieds. You’ll always find at least 10 ads recruiting military to join police forces in cities like Dallas, Birmingham, Alberquerque, and LA. That’s enough for me to call your rebuttal bullshit.
Abd BTW, this ain’t your blog, pimp. Last I checked, it still belonged to Jam Donaldson. Also, I think you wanted to say that my responses would have a lot LESS rhetoric, no?
Anyway, try actually READING what a posted for a change, and you’ll see that I’ve been very fair and respectful to Jam’s position, even as I disagree. It’s the inferior argument that is based on condescention and empty rhetoric.
So go back, refine your logic, and come down a peg, and maybe next time you can sit with the adults next thanksgiving, okay? Good deal; see you later. Good bye.
novokane
on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:16 pm #
LMAO!!!! Let’s see…today you devoted about 8 paragraphs! Man, I’m good! You know I’m enjoying this, just as much as I am under your skin! Your words describes your pathetic behavior. What a gal, I must say! It’s to bad I can’t relate with someone that display such female-like emotions in there rhymes. So maybe am the pimp, as you titled me!
Hey, maybe you can start a new blog titled, “A man can scream too!”? And then I can comment further and “refine my logic” even more!? Hows does that sound? 
You’ve been anything but “fair,” in this blog. The real reason I responded was from your consistent bullying in the blogs whenever someone just stated what they felt. I knew I would receive your attention, which is why your still PREDICTABLE (look, I can capitalize words too)! Since I’ve been told I am the king of being a prick… I thought I give you a taste of your own medicine. Other than that, I prefer to stick to my active lifestyle instead of camping by a computer such as yourself and daydreaming about what color sunflower skirt you plan to wear later. Happy Blogging Mr. Dunham!
And NOVOKANE is signing OFF! (FOR GOOD!)
novokane
on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:22 pm #
Oh, I almost forgot. Speaking of “E-Wannabe’s and cartoon rangers”. Just because you use a penis pump (which you probably purchased from those same classified ads), it doesn’t solidify your place as being a man.
Micah
on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:42 pm #
You two better knock it off or I will turn this blog around!
THERREN DUNHAM
on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:46 pm #
FINAL SCORE: Therren Dunham 3, novokane 0.
And now back to intelligent discourse, already in progress…
ms mac
on 31 Jul 2010 at 2:00 pm #
You’re so right MzPoodle. None of us that agree with Jam are free thinkers. Only the ones that disagree with her. I’ll remember that the next time I post. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Pursuit
on 05 Aug 2010 at 9:42 pm #
I’m sorry Jam, but I do NOT respect authority at all. I fear authority. Those in authority always have the potential to abuse it.
No matter the situation, I believe I should have the right to trust and respect authority, but I don’t because of the abuse of authority.
For every officer who was justified into doing what he had to do (like the one in this video), there’s ten times more who were unjustified and were brazen enough to do it on camera. They were quite literally sociopaths with guns and badges.
Jaydee
on 07 Aug 2010 at 9:30 am #
OMG!
think officer has to undergo arrest training.
bad that he has to punch a lady to calm her down.
PianoDiva
on 21 Aug 2010 at 11:45 pm #
People don’t get distracted by black/white, jaywalking not worth it, ok to slap rianna or not, all this other stuff getting mixed up with the facts. Bottom line, respect authority or suffer the consequences.
Girl2 did not get popped because Girl1 did not follow the officer’s instructions.
Girl2 got popped because she put her hands on the officer, which was rightfully perceived as a threat requiring a defensive response in a rapidly escalating situation.
The fact about police officers is that they have the authority the moment they approach. They are held accountable for their actions; yet, not necessarily at the time of the event.
At the time of the event, one must yield to the greater power, or, as we all know, that cop could have taken out his gun and killed that girl and the video would have proven that she threatened him by touching him.
Everybody can’t be the higher authority all the time people. Sometimes, for the greater good of society, we have to accept that we may not be in charge during certain moments, such as the time that a cop is trying to do his job effectively.
Yes, cops are not infallible. But, just like in this situation, it might be better to follow his instructions when he’s in charge and call your lawyer when you get to the station to return the power to your hands. Make sure you submit a major complaint against the officer to include in his file.
Or, am I crazy, what if you did not jaywalk at all???!!!
Robert@Celebrity fashion news
on 24 Aug 2010 at 10:28 am #
No doubt, infinite_question. I mean, it’s the American way to bully someone into submission, by way of force. You don’t go with the plan, we bomb you! There is national pride in this ability to get violent. That’s how foreign policy works, for USA, that’s how the government works, and it would only be a matter of time before the people emulated what they learned from the top. As Bush pointed out, we’re a war nation, that’s all we do
Robert@Celebrity fashion news’s last blog post..Doutzen Kroes: Victoria’s Secret Photoshoot
AVERAGE JOE
on 24 Aug 2010 at 5:33 pm #
ACCOUNTABILITY!!!
-I saw a time or two, she would not have gotten punched if she were white.
-interesting point-since racism exist…. why would you push the white cop???
-everyone is so up in arms over the punch, I’m more saddened by the delinquency and lack of morals from these young ladies…
-they either are or will be mothers of children soon
-and we all know what kind of raggedy fruit they shall be